strong text

A note, based on some other feedback. The two characters are not damaging/defending each other. They're both rolling to see if they pass what I guess we could call a skill check. They're both rolling to pass/fail against a common value. They do not interact with one another.

Outline

I've been tinkering for some time with a little browser game. It's mostly just for my own education, and I've come to a little problem I'm having a fair amount of trouble with.

You have two characters, each of whom have attributes in a range. Say they have 10 attributes each, and the range is between 1 and 20. I want to use these attributes to generate a 'roll' (just what I've been calling it). The higher roll wins that particular encounter.

However, when I pit two against each other where one of them has even a small advantage numerically, any formula I've come up with results in the ever-so-slightly superior one winning a huge majority of the time, which is undesirable.

My first attempt was fairly straight forward. It was the chief 'relevant' attribute for that test, weighted at 80%, and a sum of the less-relevant attributes weighted at the other 20%. This preserved the silly-huge advantage.

Adding a luck component only matters, it seems, if it's weighted somehow in favour of the lesser character, and I haven't hit a balance there.

I also tried comparing their averages to produce a relative difference, and using that to boost up the lower one a bit, but it, too seems to provide wild swings. For example, if I run the encounter 5,000 times, it quite regularly produces one side winning all 5,000. Oops.

I hope this is enough detail. I'm not necessarily looking for mathematical specifics, but rather some general ideas on how to blunt the impact that a small advantage is having, while increasing that advantage as the relative gap in attributes increases.

Details

Per the request, some more specifics. Though some things aren't yet known even to me yet, so some generalities must remain.

0.8 * (mainAttribute) + 0.2 (1/3 * subAttA + 1/3 * subAttB * 1/3 subAttC)

At present, this produces numbers in the neighourhood of 4.0. Attributes are randomly generated between specified ranges. The current test uses one character with attributes from 2 to 4, and the opponent between 3 and 5. Predictably, this produce averages close to 3 and 4 respectively.

With this one-point advantage, I'd like to see the stronger of the two win in the area of 55% to 60% of the time, with this scaling up to winning about 80% of the time with an average attribute advantage of 5 or 6, 90% at advantages of 7 or 8, leaving some room for an unlikely win when the gap grows larger. I'd prefer not to ever have guaranteed wins, but perhaps things becoming very unlikely - to the tune of winning 99.5% or 99.6% of the time when the gap gets very large.

These numbers are, as I said above, quite rough. More that specific implementations to hit the specified ranges, I'm interested more in the means of attaining them. I'm not math-illiterate, but I'm having trouble getting started, moving beyond my simplistic implementation.

Some further details

As has been noted, the current formula produces an un-random roll. Not all of the attributes are used for each roll. As it stands, it's possible for the one with the overall weaker attributes to be stronger in the areas relevant to that roll, and steal a win. But, predictably, it happens rarely.

Attempted implementations have included adding a random amount to the total of each roll, but (and I don't know why I didn't see it up front, since it's so obvious) that solves nothing.

The next attempt was to weigh their relative strengths, by taking an average of all of each's stats, dividing them against each other, and using that value to give a small boost to the lesser character. This smoothed things out a little, but still had a pronounced tendency to produce things like 5,000 wins for one guy out of 5,000 tries. It seems promising, but before going down a blind alley, I thought I'd come here. There always seems to be a ridiculous concentration of people thousands of times smarter than me on StackExchange.

I've been tinkering for some time with a game and I'm having a fair amount of trouble with something:

I have two characters, each of whom have attributes (about ten) in a range (between 1 and 20). I want to use these attributes to generate a 'roll' such that the higher roll wins that particular encounter. It's worth noting that the two characters are not damaging/defending each other. They're both rolling to see if they pass what I guess we could call a skill check. They're both rolling to pass/fail against a common value. They do not interact with one another.

However, when one of the characters has even a small numerical advantage, any formula I've come up with results in the ever-so-slightly superior one winning a huge majority of the time. This is undesirable.

I've tried weighting the 'most relevant' attribute for the test at 80% and the sum of the other attributes at 20%. I also tried comparing averages to produce a relative difference and using that to boost the weaker character. Both approaches resulted in the significant advantages I'm trying to remove (for example, if I run the encounter 5,000 times, it quite regularly produces one side winning all 5,000).

Adding a "luck" component only matters, it seems, if it's weighted somehow in favour of the lesser character, and I haven't hit a good balance there.

What approaches can I take to blunt the impact of a small numerical advantage but still preserve and increase that advantage as the relative gap in attributes increases?

Per the request, here are the specifics I have so far. Some things I haven't figured out yet so they remain generalities:

0.8 * (mainAttribute) + 0.2 (1/3 * subAttA + 1/3 * subAttB * 1/3 subAttC)

At present, this produces numbers in the neighborhood of 4.0. Attributes are randomly generated between specified ranges. The current test uses one character with attributes from 2 to 4, and the opponent between 3 and 5. Predictably, this produce averages close to 3 and 4 respectively.

With this one-point advantage, I'd like to see the stronger of the two win in the area of 55% to 60% of the time, with this scaling up to winning about 80% of the time with an average attribute advantage of 5 or 6, 90% at advantages of 7 or 8, leaving some room for an unlikely win when the gap grows larger. I'd prefer not to ever have guaranteed wins, but perhaps things becoming very unlikely - to the tune of winning 99.5% or 99.6% of the time when the gap gets very large.

The current formula produces a non-random number. Randomness comes from the selection of which attributes are relevant. Not all of the attributes are used for each roll. It's possible for the one with the overall weaker attributes to be stronger in the areas relevant to that roll, and steal a win. But, predictably, it happens rarely.

My next attempt was to weigh their relative strengths, by taking an average of all of each's stats, dividing them against each other, and using that value to give a small boost to the lesser character. This smoothed things out a little, but still had a pronounced tendency to produce things like 5,000 wins for one guy out of 5,000 tries.

Some further details

As has been noted, the current formula produces an un-random roll. Not all of the attributes are used for each roll. As it stands, it's possible for the one with the overall weaker attributes to be stronger in the areas relevant to that roll, and steal a win. But, predictably, it happens rarely.

Attempted implementations have included adding a random amount to the total of each roll, but (and I don't know why I didn't see it up front, since it's so obvious) that solves nothing.

The next attempt was to weigh their relative strengths, by taking an average of all of each's stats, dividing them against each other, and using that value to give a small boost to the lesser character. This smoothed things out a little, but still had a pronounced tendency to produce things like 5,000 wins for one guy out of 5,000 tries. It seems promising, but before going down a blind alley, I thought I'd come here. There always seems to be a ridiculous concentration of people thousands of times smarter than me on StackExchange.

I've been tinkering for some time with a little browser game. It's mostly just for my own education, and I've come to a little problem I'm having a fair amount of trouble with.

You have two characters, each of whom have attributes in a range. Say they have 10 attributes each, and the range is between 1 and 20. I want to use these attributes to generate a 'roll' (just what I've been calling it). The higher roll wins that particular encounter.

However, when I pit two against each other where one of them has even a small advantage numerically, any formula I've come up with results in the ever-so-slightly superior one winning a huge majority of the time, which is undesirable.

My first attempt was fairly straight forward. It was the chief 'relevant' attribute for that test, weighted at 80%, and a sum of the less-relevant attributes weighted at the other 20%. This preserved the silly-huge advantage.

Adding a luck component only matters, it seems, if it's weighted somehow in favour of the lesser character, and I haven't hit a balance there.

I also tried comparing their averages to produce a relative difference, and using that to boost up the lower one a bit, but it, too seems to provide wild swings. For example, if I run the encounter 5,000 times, it quite regularly produces one side winning all 5,000. Oops.

I hope this is enough detail. I'm not necessarily looking for mathematical specifics, but rather some general ideas on how to blunt the impact that a small advantage is having, while increasing that advantage as the relative gap in attributes increases.

strong text

A note, based on some other feedback. The two characters are not damaging/defending each other. They're both rolling to see if they pass what I guess we could call a skill check. They're both rolling to pass/fail against a common value. They do not interact with one another.

Outline

I've been tinkering for some time with a little browser game. It's mostly just for my own education, and I've come to a little problem I'm having a fair amount of trouble with.

You have two characters, each of whom have attributes in a range. Say they have 10 attributes each, and the range is between 1 and 20. I want to use these attributes to generate a 'roll' (just what I've been calling it). The higher roll wins that particular encounter.

However, when I pit two against each other where one of them has even a small advantage numerically, any formula I've come up with results in the ever-so-slightly superior one winning a huge majority of the time, which is undesirable.

My first attempt was fairly straight forward. It was the chief 'relevant' attribute for that test, weighted at 80%, and a sum of the less-relevant attributes weighted at the other 20%. This preserved the silly-huge advantage.

Adding a luck component only matters, it seems, if it's weighted somehow in favour of the lesser character, and I haven't hit a balance there.

I also tried comparing their averages to produce a relative difference, and using that to boost up the lower one a bit, but it, too seems to provide wild swings. For example, if I run the encounter 5,000 times, it quite regularly produces one side winning all 5,000. Oops.

I hope this is enough detail. I'm not necessarily looking for mathematical specifics, but rather some general ideas on how to blunt the impact that a small advantage is having, while increasing that advantage as the relative gap in attributes increases.

Details

Per the request, some more specifics. Though some things aren't yet known even to me yet, so some generalities must remain.

At the moment, the roll is generated as

0.8 * (mainAttribute) + 0.2 (1/3 * subAttA + 1/3 * subAttB * 1/3 subAttC)

At present, this produces numbers in the neighourhood of 4.0. Attributes are randomly generated between specified ranges. The current test uses one character with attributes from 2 to 4, and the opponent between 3 and 5. Predictably, this produce averages close to 3 and 4 respectively.

With this one-point advantage, I'd like to see the stronger of the two win in the area of 55% to 60% of the time, with this scaling up to winning about 80% of the time with an average attribute advantage of 5 or 6, 90% at advantages of 7 or 8, leaving some room for an unlikely win when the gap grows larger. I'd prefer not to ever have guaranteed wins, but perhaps things becoming very unlikely - to the tune of winning 99.5% or 99.6% of the time when the gap gets very large.

These numbers are, as I said above, quite rough. More that specific implementations to hit the specified ranges, I'm interested more in the means of attaining them. I'm not math-illiterate, but I'm having trouble getting started, moving beyond my simplistic implementation.